About Mooglets And IE
published in blogs by Valerio
Saturday, August 26, 2006 - 04:12 AM
It seems there must have been a misunderstanding on what mooglets is, because people seems quite angry for it not being compatible with ie. So let me clear things up a bit:
Mooglets has started as a non-ie project, is a non-ie project and will remain forever a non-ie project.
Feel free not to use it if that bothers you that much, but sorry, we (Valerio and Giorgio) wanted to do for once a project without hacks, cracks, alpha filters, workarounds, css fixes, !important hacks and so on. We did it and it has been Damn Good not to worry about ie. This doesnt mean in the future mooglets cant work with ie7. We’re talking about ie6 here. If the new version is good enough, we’ll probably add compatibility for it.
Again, let me clear things up a bit…
Mooglets doesnt, will never, ever, work in ie (6). Its not because its impossible, but simply because we didnt want it to. Its a side project, a demostration on how things can work smooth and look good without the worst browser on earth. No hacks, no alpha filters, no additional fixes. A real relief. Feel free to judge it useless. “We’re trying to move the web forward”, thats why we need to have UP-TO-DATE tools to program our stuff with, and not be forced to use the same hacks over and over, or be forced not to use the latest time-saving features all browser have just because Ie doesnt.
This is not software for everyone to use (like moofx) this is a software only people who dont use ie6 as their primary browser can use.
Anyways, thats just my point of view.
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25 comments so far.
1
Inviz
said...
on Sat 26 Aug at 04:42 AM
Amen to that
2
bluesaze
said...
on Sat 26 Aug at 04:54 AM
Wow way to go. I so totally understand what your trying to say. even I have wasted a lot of time when I make websites that try to be compatible with both the latest browsers and Crazy IE.
Though a large majority of users say 70 % wouldn’t be able to use it.
3
DivaShop
said...
on Sun 27 Aug at 04:45 PM
Amen! IE’s got more holes than swiss cheese & more bugs than a snootfull o’ earth!
4
BobRyder
said...
on Mon 28 Aug at 04:44 AM
you’re so damn right. go ahead. futurethings for the wellprepared (and ie user are’nt)
5
Nick Pang
said...
on Mon 28 Aug at 08:52 AM
firefox rules!
btw, when will the API or code be available for use? can’t wait to mooglelize my web pages :-)
-nick
6
Scott Superb
said...
on Mon 28 Aug at 04:36 PM
Hoorah. The more the merrier. Eventually these non-compliant browsers will get it.
7
ar
said...
on Tue 29 Aug at 12:09 PM
well, it almost worked in O9..
8
Miszou
said...
on Thu 31 Aug at 01:10 PM
It looks like you’re confused as to the real reason you’re not supporting IE6…
9
ahz
said...
on Thu 31 Aug at 02:14 PM
Your attitude seems rather arrogant to me. I’ve programmed for both browsers too and Firefox needs its own set of “hacks, cracks, alpha filters, workarounds, css fixes, !important hacks and so on”. So, it’s clear to me this is really about being anti-MS. That’s ok, but just be honest about it. To me if your technology is not useable by the largest user community there is (IE users) then it is of no use at all.
Way to commit suicide.
10
John
said...
on Thu 31 Aug at 11:54 PM
I like this kinda spirit, ie gets on so many web developers nerves sometimes because you always gotta fix something so it works perfect for that browser. Just keep up the good work with everything thats already been done, they look awesome! maybe if everyone works together to rid the internet of IE everything will be a lot better
11
The Ar'tak
said...
on Fri 01 Sep at 06:11 PM
To the ones like ahz who call the lack of support for IE6 arrogant and anti-MS…
Who truly is the one being arrogant? Those who are trying, desperately, to move on, as the web development community has been trying to for the past five years, or those who have done their best to try and hold the development of the web back, for no apparent reason other than they didn’t feel the need to update their systems?
Let’s examine track records here…IE was updated regularly back during the first Browser Wars. Once Netscape was bought out and dropped MS just sat back and left what they had done. Why? Because, well, who was going to stop them? Web developers? No one listens to us. Competing browsers? Which ones were a serious threat? In the end, IE6 has not been around so long because it’s so wonderful, but because of sheer arrogance. If you didn’t like IE, what other option did you really have?
It wasn’t until Firefox and Safari came along and Opera became remotely serious competition that IE7 was mooted as anything other than a Vista component. Why is that? Because suddenly, much to the web development community’s relief, more and more people began realizing that while a five year old computer is considered obsolete, a five year old browser is just supposed to be acceptable?
Here’s some arrogance for you…imagine where the internet could be if IE hadn’t stagnated (and at a level that was two years behind at the time it came out, nonetheless). I daresay the brilliant innovations you see now like this project are three years overdue and that’s being generous. Four years could even be argued. The web developers could have gotten a lot farther without catering to IE 6 and it’s about time some projects realized that.
The only arrogant one here is the company that did nothing unless there was competition, and dictates to everyone else that what they say must therefore be in terms of browser capability.
12
seventoes
said...
on Mon 04 Sep at 06:19 PM
@mike: I reverse engineered the API, and you can find my mini-docs at the URL below.
http://www.mebluedragon.com/moog-docs
13
seventoes
said...
on Mon 04 Sep at 06:19 PM
Sorry.. that should be nick, not mike…
14
kunfujo
said...
on Tue 05 Sep at 06:18 AM
Preach it, brother! I can’t tell you the number of times I have had to destroy a perfectly good design and make it “fit” into IE’s realm of thinking what the web should be.
I haven’t tried the Mooglets yet, but I will after reading your message!
Viva free software and things that work they way they were supposed to!
15
a college student
said...
on Wed 06 Sep at 05:08 AM
stay the course, this is good for the web
16
AK
said...
on Thu 07 Sep at 08:55 PM
You can’t argue that FF is a better browser than IE, because it is not. Open source will NEVER be able to compete with a product designed full-time by the best programmers on the planet. And yes, Microsoft has the BEST there are. But you CAN argue that FF is MUCH better about being updated than IE, although it is still not at a point where it is “better” than IE.
As far as I can tell, the ONLY thing that firefox has over IE is real support for PNG alpha-channel transparency. I notice mooglets relies heavily on PNG transparency, thus the TRUE reason why it is not compatible.
Arrogant? Hardly. Lazy? Well… yes. :)
17
itsnotvalid
said...
on Sun 10 Sep at 12:51 AM
If you didn’t tell me it’s not working with IE, I would never know. I only use Firefox and Opera ;-)
18
Marilyn Wilson Price
said...
on Mon 11 Sep at 02:41 AM
I would love to use Open Source and Firefox but unfortunately the rest of the world doesn’t. Everytime I try I get my computer all jammed up. It just isn’t compatible with my Windows Programs computer no matter what they say. Plus you have no customers if you are selling something.
19
fitnessbymarilyn
said...
on Mon 11 Sep at 02:55 AM
I do think Open Source etc. is better and hope that it will become more and more popular and remain FREE…..
I just tried the IE7 Beta and am still trying to get my computer straightened out as it jammed everything up……
One reason MS hasn’t progressed faster is people resent having to buy all new programs every few years and pay to update old ones. You spend a lot of money getting setup and then lo and behold you are extinct shortly. MS is less technical and is kind of fill in the blanks or more user friendly….
But I also love the look of mooglets etc. Thanks and keep up the good work….
20
Ty
said...
on Mon 18 Sep at 10:03 AM
How about IE7 though? Microsoft is “trying” to start fresh with standard compliance. I’ve tried to view the demo with IE7 beta, but get blocked.
Would be interesting to see what renders.
21
Ryan
said...
on Thu 19 Oct at 01:06 PM
I love the way people come in here and show the world they have no clue what they’re talking about….yes “ahz” and “ak” I am talking about you. And “Marilyn Wilson Price”, you seem very confused too.
IE is not the better browser it is [simply] the most common browser thanks to Windows, end of story.
@Ty - IE7 is only a slight bit better than IE6, it still doesn’t stand up to Firefox, Safari or Opera which is a real shame as I’m sure we all hoped for a decent IE comeback.
22
A.K.
said...
on Thu 19 Oct at 07:44 PM
ryan, way to not make any supporting arguments.
i.e is faster, more responsive, faster loading, uses less memory, and standards compliancy? well… seems nothing useful is standards compliant anyway, but all the browsers seem to support it. every heard of ajax? inline styles? scripts? the list goes on and on… if we all followed standards, none of this would exist.
firefox is also an excellent piece of software, i’m not bashing it in any way - it’s just heavier.
now opera and safari are very nice, here’s my browser overall “goodness” order: safari, ie6 -tie- opera, firefox
23
Ryan
said...
on Fri 20 Oct at 06:15 AM
I don’t need to make an argument, there’s enough documented information out there for you to read once you stop ignoring it.
IE just does not stand up to Firefox or any of the other mainstream browsers. IE makes my job harder, makes it cost more and makes me take longer. As pointed out by someone else, apps like Mooglets could have been done years ago if MS had not ended support for one of the most important programs on the Windows OS.
Anyway it looks like IE7 isn’t much better then IE6 - http://www.webdevout.net/browsersupportsummary.php
Oh joy.
24
Ryan
said...
on Fri 20 Oct at 06:46 AM
Also, Ahz claims…
Firefox needs its own set of “hacks, cracks, alpha filters, workarounds, css fixes, !important hacks and so on”.
Ahz could you explain what these are exactly? Maybe some examples if you have any. I have not used hacks, cracks, alpha filers, workarounds, css fixes, !important hacks for Firefox in YEARS. Compared to IE, Firefox code problems are almost non existent.
25
Kell
said...
on Wed 25 Oct at 03:58 PM
Guys, what’s the issue?! IE does not support standards, Firefox does. It’s obvious that someone is (justly) fed up with IE and is being smart and just skipping it… we shouldn’t have to work around IE in the first place.
And just because IE is more popular and used doesn’t mean it’s the best solution… I think just about everyone will agree with me when I say that IE[6] is the worst modern browser out there.
So kudos to Valerio and Giorgio for being brave - maybe the rest of us will catch on ;)
—- Kell